Subject: Re: Frames and Groupsets Posted by: Al on December 12, 2003 at 19:17:43: In Reply to: Frames and Groupsets posted by John M on December 12, 2003 at 16:05:35:

Message: >Hello, >I have some plans for a new ride and would like some opinions.I don't know if any of you have come accross this site before but it's pretty cool: http://www.velomech.ch/linkseite-rahmen.html Anyway the frame I am interested in is this one: http://www.velomech.ch/image/columbus-race-frame-thron-black-silver-lila-61cm.jpg >And so first question is do you think Columbus thron is a good frameset for a guy 6'3'' 195lbs. And second my plan is to buy a Campy Chorus/Centaur Group from these guys >http://www.gvhbikes.com/ which I found off of velonews classified. What I want to do eventually is to get an FSA compact crankset and I am wondering if the brazed on shift >adapter will have enough room on it for adjustment. Also is there a carbon fork that will work with this frame and I assume it would have to be threaded? I understand that the frame will most likely need to be spread to handle the Campy 10 speed but thanks to this forum I have the experience doing that. But will this group set work well w/this frame and will the campy headset fit this frame with a carbon fork? or should I just get an older >headset and steel fork that would 'match' this older frame. Thankyou in advance... I like the Columbus Thron tubing ... from what I read about it a couple of years ago regarding its modulus of elasticity & tensile strength, it appears to be comparable to the Reynolds 501-to-520 tube sets. Well, that was MY impression at the time. It does mean that the Thron tubing should be good for a 60cm frame; but, expect the bare frame to weigh about 5 lbs. 6+ ozs. That is NOT particularly light sounding in this day-and-age of ultra-light 853 steel, exotic alloys, or carbon fiber. I like the ride of the Reynolds slightly heavier tube sets -- very personal preference -- but, I can say that if the geometry is good, it will probably have similar ride characteristics to a carbon fiber frame with the SAME geometry. Having said that, the top tube seems a bit short for the size of the frame ... it would probably be "better" if it was ~59cm long for that size frame. What is the bottom bracket height going to be? It looks as though it would be a low bottom bracket based on the pic [in the tradition of 30+ years ago!] ... but, the pic [or, my viewing of it] could be deceiving ... the drawback would be the crankarm length you could theoretically use [but, MOST (?)people still prefer 170mm arms regardless of leg length because of the ability to "spin" a shorter arm]. What are the angles for the head & seat tube? Does the frame have an English or Italian BB? It appears to be Italian (based on the SIZE of the BB shell) -- nothing wrong with that, per se; but, be forewarned that it is a little quirkier to set up than a English threaded BB. The fork I always recommend as being a BEST VALUE (for ride quality & price) is a Kestrel; but, there are a lot of good forks out there. You can often get a new Kestrel fork for under $130 ... sometimes, less. More at you LBS. The advantage of threadless steerer is often overstated ... I think the biggest disadvantage of a threaded headset is the lack of cool factor. The fact that you need BIGGER tools is mostly a handicap for race mechanics OR people who have no tools, yet. So, if you end up with a threaded headset, so be it. The front derailleur braze-on should be "okay" with the compact drive. I think that: * If the frame's price is $100, then it is probably a good deal, regardless of potential drawbacks with the geometry because everything can eventually be swapped out to another frame (except the slightly longer stem which you will probably need to complement the shorter top tube). * If the frame's price is $200, then you may want to keep looking because there are a lot of good deals out there if you are patient EVEN if they cost just slightly more. Even though $200 SEEMS inexpensive considering you could easily pay $800-$1800 or a steel frame, it is a lot if the frame is poorly conceived and uncomfortable to ride [not that it is, mind you ... I just don't have enough information]. * If the frame's price is in between, then it depends on how anxious you are to build up a new bike to ride. JUST _MY_ OPINION. You need to get MORE information from the seller regarding the geometry [you could always measure the angles, yourself, of course]. THE RIDE IS VERY DEPENDENT ON THE GEOMETRY. So, look up the geometry of other racing frames (e.g., Colnago) for comparison ... then, wait a few days before plunking down your hard earned money on a new frame. I think all the current Campy components are a good choice ... the less expensive lines [Mirage, Veloce & possibly Daytona] have a break-in period because the shifters use bushings instead of ball bearings [Record & Chorus]; and (of course), are slightly heavier. The Shimano components are better in that there seem to be less mix-and-match compatibility issues with the shifters & derailleurs; but, that is less of an issue if you are buying a group ... however, future replacements of your may have to be with Record or Chorus components if the lesser "stuff" isn't available. BTW. The frame's 130mm rear spacing should be good-to-go with the 10-speed components.